Trolling lead core vs using live bait

[VinnyH]

As much as an amateur as I am with trolling one tip just came to mind after Ark's question. I have a handheld GPS that shows how fast I'm moving. I can watch and try to maintain a speed while rowing. with dual oars I can be between 1 and 3 mph at times. Maybe a cheap handheld with that option will help.

Best to All,
Vinny
PS: I got a leadcore setup from Wade and haven't used it yet.

[arkpov56]

Welcome to the club of procrastinators, Vinny!
Thanks for the advise, it may come in handy.  For now, without the GPS, something like "very slow", "slow" ...up to "as fast as you can" would do for me.

Besides, Vinny, being neighbors on Cross River and both armature trollers should we unite our efforts and go for it one day together?  Or may be we can convince one of the experts to give us a practical lesson?

[VinnyH]

Ark,
We'll have to find a Sat. or Sun. that works in the middle or end of June. I'm definitely in need of practice.

Thanks,
Vinny

[oilgorg]

I haven't tried trolling lures with or without lead core line yet, but you've got me reading up on it. I came across this in an article.

More about trolling speed, as mentioned before, don't exceed the action of your lure. Most lures with spoons, will work at a range of speed, from dead slow to the pace of a fast walk. You should change your speed until you find the one the fish like that day. A very good way to change the speed and the depth of your lure is to trolling a zigzag pattern. The inside lines slow and drop, and the outside lures speed up and rise. Have you noticed how many times you have hooked a fish just after completing a turn?

This is the same principle at work. Many experts think the fish just follow the lure along, and with a sudden change in speed and depth, the fish are stimulated to strike. Whatever the reason, you will find you have better luck if you troll only one direction until you catch that first fish. Then concentrate your trolling to the downwind or upwind direction you were going when it hit.

I don't know if that helps, but it has me thinking of trying some new techniques.

[Tom]

arkpov56,
Thanks for the "expert" designation. Everything I know about trolling comes from spending time on the reservoir. Don't try to take articles written about trolling to seriously because NO ONE trolls in a rowboat out there in the world except us die hard reservoir fishermen ... so many of the written rules don't apply. I would say that I troll with lead core mostly in the hot dog days of summer when you can read the depth of the thermoclyle with your fishfinder and there is almost zero chance to get a Lake trout from shore or on the surface. I said Lake trout because that is the species that seems to respond so well to trollling Sutton spoons. I also use lead core almost exclusively on Rye Lake / Kensico because of the large stretches of deep water. On Cross River I troll, but usually w/o leadcore because you can easily get bait or lures down the 30' or so to target Browns. Here's some answers to your questions. Figure about 5' per color at a moderate to fast row or drift. If you row excruciatingly slow, or have a very, very slow drift figure on 10' per color. There is no easy way to let out leadcore. I try to row very fast until 1 color is out. Then the other colors more easily follow. The floro or mono leader should be only 5 to 10 ' long, to help reduce snags. I have found the mono floats better than floro and keeps the spoon off the rocks better. Many times the lead core is dragging on the bottom and the mono also helps to keep the Sutton out of the mud. In deep water, the  8lb. test mono is invisible enough for the trout to not see. I usually prefer Sutton or other brand flutter spoons with a shiny silver color. (I mean REAL silverplate). Good luck. It is a pleasure to pull in a big laker in the summer when leadcore is the only way to go.
Tom

[arkpov56]

Tom,

Thanks a lot for invaluable info!
I did read articles on trolling and I realize that although the general ideas may be relevant but the practical application is way off from our "manual propulsion" situation.  Nevertheless, zigzagging movement did seem to work for me in whatever little experience I had trolling leadcore.  The only laker I got this way was caught just after the turn.

Tom, you surprised me by saying you troll without leadcore on Cross River.  Actually it was your pictures with browns from CR that inspired me in the first place.  But I was under impression that it was especially important to control your depth when targeting browns.  Yes, I can easily get my bait down 30' when I am idle, but once started drifting or trolling I could never tell how deep my bait is.  I even tried to calculate the depth using Similar Triangles (surprisingly, I still remember basic geometry from school).  I guess there is something more than just cold mathematics behind your success in hitting those browns!

I will definitely use your advice on fluorocarbon vs. mono line – never thought of it this way.  How about sowbellies vs. spoons?  Do you ever troll with live bait?  And lastly: do you think it is time to start looking for browns in Cross river, or is water is too cold yet?

[Tom]

arkpov56,
I have recently been targeting Browns on Cross River. Caught an 18 incher yesterday and today it's on the smoker. I have a question for you. How large do you think a Brown has to be to snap 10 lb test line right after it strikes a sawbellie on the surface. This happened this week and I was really steamed to loose a presumably large fish. I had set my Shimano bait caster reel at  a very light drag but the line tangled and that is when the line snapped. Nevertheless I never experience such a fast line break ... especially with 10 lb test.

I might reconsider using lead core for Cross River Browns. The fish are at least 20 to 30+ feet down and there has been alot of wind lately and yes, you are right that lead core is the way to get the bait/lures down. I usually like to use live bait (sawbellies) when there is little to no wind. This enables my presentation to be lively even when I don't row. While rowing I usually use Rapalas or Yo-Zure shad/minnow type lures. The sawbellies are very large this year and I am still getting some hits so I wouldn't resist using a 4+ inch lure.
Tom

[Intybl]

I have had 8 lb line snapped twice with fish on them, guess I set the drag too tight and reeled in too quickly..one fish jumped twice I was so excited only to burst the line about 6 feet from shore. Thought they were both lakers? Am going up to 12 lb or perhaps 15.

[arkpov56]

Tom,
you know the rule of thumb: the fish that brakes off your line, especially if you didn't see it, is always the biggest.  So the answer to your question would be: "As big as you can imagine it'!  At least it would be for me .  I am sure though, it's not the end of your luck, it'll come back!
I've been pretty successful with lakers on Kensico lately; mostly with sawbellies close to the bottom or trolling at depth around my anchor (I anchor where I mark fish on the radar, let out some more rope and than just travel around the spot with my anchor down).  Now I think it's time to move on and use all that data I gathered from good people on the forum.  So my next trip will be on CR, targeting browns exclusively (I wander how many trips it'll take me to finally bring home some fish again ).

[phishahn]

HEY Fellow brown hunters, I always read with interest on everything you all post. I think sharing insight will all make us better anglers. Tom 10lb. breaking? Honestly, that's  strange. I'm guessing mono? With stretch that's almost impossible, so, a bad knot? old line? I don't know, those kinds of breaks would bother the crap out of me.

anyway, Pepacton get togehter is 4 weeks away, Room is booked, boats are ready. So far I got Vinny from Mon-Thur, Tom u still ok w/ Tuesday? day trip. Joel, you in? Anyone else is also  great. Guarantee, good time, fish (almost) guaranteed, no check that, GUARANTEED!!!! Trout fishing like you haven't seen, bass fishing relatively not even a thought, but loads of monster smallies lurking.

[yonkers26]

I still may be in to meet you all for a 7/1 day trip, but I won't know until about a week or two before. What time do you like to be out on the water phish?

[phishahn]

Hey, I would say we would be @AL'S baitshop @ 5am, geting bait, Howie.

[bowser]

it is written in the good book.every hour a man[or woman] fishes adds an hour to thier life.guess i'll live to be 100!!!!!!

[joel137]

HEY Fellow brown hunters, I always read with interest on everything you all post. I think sharing insight will all make us better anglers. Tom 10lb. breaking? Honestly, that's  strange. I'm guessing mono? With stretch that's almost impossible, so, a bad knot? old line? I don't know, those kinds of breaks would bother the crap out of me.

anyway, Pepacton get togehter is 4 weeks away, Room is booked, boats are ready. So far I got Vinny from Mon-Thur, Tom u still ok w/ Tuesday? day trip. Joel, you in? Anyone else is also  great. Guarantee, good time, fish (almost) guaranteed, no check that, GUARANTEED!!!! Trout fishing like you haven't seen, bass fishing relatively not even a thought, but loads of monster smallies lurking.

yep in still in

[butcherella]

Colella,
I wouldn't get crazy about those pictures. Just be happy with your own success. Those fish are usually dead when they are weighed in, and could have came from anywhere. Start obsessing about big fish and it becomes less enjoyable ,and more of a chore. The big one usually comes when least expected.

Jimmy, with all due respect, I couldn't disagree more. Of course the fish are dead when weighed in.Obsession with big browns is a disease, to me, the only thing that matters is getting the edge on a wary,old monster. Otherwise, I'll just be poser and stand there elbow to elbow with the other idiots catching the stupid stocked trout.

Jimmy, I have been told this before. I think everyone who loves fishing have there own reasons why they do. Most fisherman would probably agree with each other on the reasons they love fishing. I love to fish for trout because there is always a possibility to hook into a monster in the double digits. That is my objective every time I am on the water. I understand it will not happen 99% of the time and I have fun reeling in every fish I catch. I am never disappointed but always hunting and trying to fool the that fish of a lifetime. Even when I get skunked I have a good time. I love this sport!!