Small Stream Flyfishing reports?

[crappyice]

Hi All..I'm new to the site and appreciate the knowledge I've seen so far.
Anyone out there interested in posting some local reports on the fly activity in the West/Put streams for us closer to the city?  Its rough making the trip at $4.00 a gallon for low water, mudy water, or no bugs. Thanks in advance.

[VinnyH]

Welcome to the boards.

I haven't gotten into fly fishing yet so hopefully someone will have some info for you. I did just hear about a stream off of Route 35 west from Muscoot Reservoir that's supposed to be a great spot for fishing. I think it's off of Wood Street right before the south end of Amawalk Reservoir. I'll find out more specifics next week. My friend is bringing me.

Best Always,
Vinny

[SteveD]

There are a number of stocked streams in the Croton Watershed. The best two sources of information on the web would be the DEC website, and the Croton Watershed Chapter of Trout Unlimited: http://crotonwatershedtu.org/ This organization has a very nice booklet about the streams with the most detail of any source I have seen. They have meetings every third Thursday evening, except in the summer, and you can find the details on the website. You do not have to be a member to attend. This group has been instrumental in maintaining these beautiful trout streams, and are worth supporting, so I joined this year when I got interested in learning how to fly fish.

Another good source of information would be the fellows at The Bedford Sportsman (they have a website). They taught me the basics in one of their Sunday clinics, and can give good advice about nice local spots. 

The DEC lists annual stocking figures and has other information about the streams around the Croton Watershed.

Many of the streams in this watershed have fairly good water much of the year, as they are regulated by the outflows from the reservoirs. They are not very big,  and some are rather short in total length as they flow from one reservoir to another, but they are fairly accessible, if you have the DEP permit for access to NYC property. I have only fished a few of them, so far, and can vouch for there being trout in them. Bugs are hatching, and the water has been pretty good this year. I have had luck with nymphs, but have not pulled anything in on a dry fly this year on these waters. I caught two wild brown trout of about 8 inches this week one evening after work on a pheasant tail nymph.

However, because of the very high density of the human population within a short distance of this area, and the relative high pressure of fishing that would result if the local people broadcast to the rest of the world where and when the fishing is best in these small streams, it is unlikely that those who know are going to publicly give the kind of details you are looking for. If there are over ten million humans within a short drive from the watershed, there are likely to be hundreds of thousands of wannabe fishermen who would love for someone to tell them exactly when and where to find the fish. Such numbers would overwhelm and devastate these lovely little places. You will have to do your own homework to learn how to fish these places. It will be worth it.

This watershed is not like the Catskills, which has larger rivers and depends on the fishing tourist for a substantial part of the local business. Guides and shops up in the Roscoe area are happy to broadcast to the world what the local conditions are, in the hopes that it will generate more business for "Trout Town USA." The fishing is great up there, and I pulled a 23 inch wild brown in on a dry fly two weeks ago, on the West Branch of the Delaware. But the area around Roscoe gets darned crowded, with fishermen elbow to elbow in many favorite pools of the Beaverkill and Willowemoc. Such activity is essentially commercial tourist flyfishing. Croton watershed is not anything like this. It is a quiet, local, not-so-well-kept secret.   

The popular spot Vinny mentioned is referred to as the Amawalk Outlet. It is the section of the Muscoot River that connects Amawalk Reservoir to Muscoot Reservoir, and is something like 3 miles long. It is a very pretty little stream with some fine fishing. You need a DEP access permit, as it is NYC watershed land, and special fishing regulations apply to this spot. Check the DEC website for the regs. 

Good luck trout hunting.

[VinnyH]

Steve,
Thanks for adding all the information. I'm obviously a beginner when it comes to stream fishing.

I also appreciate the idea that some streams shouldn't be featured on the front page of a website. I believe the reservoirs can handle all the boats on them, streams and ponds are another story.

Best to All,
Vinny

[SteveD]

Vinny,

It is a head-scratching trade off, trying to decide how much information to put in such a public place, as I am sure you have pondered as you manage this forum.

On the one hand, we are eager to share our experience and knowledge with others who share our love of the sport, the "Brothers of the Angle" as Izaak Walton called us over three centuries ago. On the other hand, we wish to protect those places we hold dear for such activities, so they remain idyllic places to enjoy. Many of the local streams have been very well cared for by the people who use them, and remain free of litter and vandalism. Let us do all we can to keep them that way. I always make it a point to pick up any litter I find and carry it out if I can.

Amawalk Outlet is just such a place, quite beautiful, amazingly serene, despite being nestled in the bustle of suburban commuters, and much loved by the local anglers who frequent it. A place where one can stop for an hour or two before or after work for some fishing. It is clean and quiet, and we hope to keep it that way.

Enjoy it when you visit next week! I hope it is therapeutic and helps with rehabilitation after your surgery. Perhaps casting with your other arm and dead drifting streamers or nymphs on a fly line is just the thing.

PM me if you ever want to slip away to explore the local streams for some trout hunting. I am learning my way around them.

Steve   

[crappyice]

Steve,
I appreciate your honesty and can certainly understand your hesitance of over exposing the water being fished.  I am in no way looking for the easy was out and will never ask for or expect a "honeyhole" to be revealed.  The mystic behind a honeyhole is finding it yourself anyway.  I have fished most of the waters in the Croton area and also empathize with your sentiments of overcrowded small streams.  Sabe overcrowding for Junction Pool!  The majority of my inetent is trying to keep connected with the Croton streams when I can only be there once or twice a month so when I am able to "escape" I am not blindsided by no water as a result of lack of release or no fish as a result of a chemical spill (Amawalk years ago..Is it back?).  Thanks again...
Chris

[SteveD]

Amawalk Outlet seems to be in good shape. My understanding is that the problem in the past was sewage treatment effluent entering Hallock's Mill Brook, causing turbidity and siltation in that stream, which empties into Amawalk 1/3 mile below the dam, affecting insect life in the vicinity. This has reportedly been corrected, and does not seem to have a significant effect today, according to the CWCTU book. 

We have had a somewhat dry spring so far this year, statistically, but the streams are not terribly low at the moment, since our big rain this week. Perhaps as summer approaches this could become more of a concern, and it would affect some of the smaller streams.

Interestingly, the information about water flow is actually available online, if you do a bit of googling. The DEP website has a map about current reservoir levels, available at http://nyc.gov/html/dep/html/drinking_water/maplevels_wide.shtml. That page also has a link to the USGS website, which has a phenomenal amount of data available about surface water conditions measured around the country.

For the USGS list of New York surface waters: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ny/nwis/current?type=sw&group_key=basin_cd&search_site_no_station_nm=

For the Amawalk Outlet flow: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ny/nwis/uv/?site_no=01374941&PARAmeter_cd=00065,00060,72020,00062,00010 The current flow is around 19 cubic feet per second, which is a little below median for this date (25). It is around 30th percentile, by my guestimate (for the statistically challenged, that means that the water flow today is higher than 30% of values for this date recorded in the database, or lower than 70% of records). Mean flow is 34; the minimum was reported in 2002 at 9.5, the max for this date in 1997 at 136. These are based on records kept since march 1994. Amawalk tends to have a fairly steady release, compared to many other streams, from what I can see in these data.

Now how's that for answering your question about water conditions at Amawalk?

Unfortunately, returning to your first post in this thread, fly hatch reports would be out of date by the time you read them on this forum, if that is what you meant by "fly activity." Major hatches in small streams often last but a few hours, and are not easily predicted. I came across some website recently that listed the periods of typical hatches for various waters in the region in a gantt chart style, which might be very useful to help one prepare for fishing, to decide what patterns to tie and stick in your fly box. But until you get to the river, there is no easy way to know what is hatching at the moment.

I have caught trout in these streams even when there was not clearly a major hatch occurring and I saw no fish rising. I used nymphs. From some of the things I have read, it appears that the great majority of a trout's diet in small streams is subsurface critters, not hatching flies or spinners on the surface, so nymphing can still catch lots of fish when there is no hatch.

The streams are great places to go for a sense of peace and tranquility, even on days you catch no fish.

And when you can't get out to fish, you can surf the web and learn interesting things about fishing. That's what I mean by doing your homework.

nerding out,
Steve

[joel137]

excellent posts steve

[ShorePatrol]

    I may not fly fish anymore(darn rotator cuff) but i do ultra light spin fish where all the fly fishers go. The amawalk outlet is as pretty as they say and with the bridge on wood? street out of order it is peacefull. park at the bird sanctuary on wood st and walk down wood st towards the bridge. there are three main sections. the first is a dirt road that leads to a small weir/dam that holds big trout. the path also leads upstream to other fine spots. the second is halfway to the bridge,Monument pool. look for a path next to a boulder with a missing plaque  (pesky teens).the third is by the bridge.upstream of the bridge is the back pool. also look for a path that leads downstream many a pool or pocket to fly fish.
 in putnam  try the croton falls outlet. there is a bridge to park at on butlerville rd off croton falls rd. there are clear paths to follow upstream and down. and don't forget East branch croton river.part 1 is from eastbranch reservoir to diverting reservoir. part two is from diverting reservoir to its junction with the croton falls outlet behind the croton falls RR station.
google maps is a good tool to try and find place to park and fish. if you see a small dirt pull off with room for a car near a body of water chances are there will be a preworn path to follow. most of this info is available in many books published about fishing near nyc or easily discovered on google maps
enjoy

also   http://www.trout-streams.com/ is a useful site for fly fishing our local area

[SteveD]

ShorePatrol,

Those are some places in Putnam that should be good. The trout-streams.com site has links to the USGS flow data for these places. I have been out that way the past couple of weekends, because my daughters ride horses on a farm next to West Branch Reservoir, but I have not had a chance to fish in those sections of the Croton. We did see fly fishermen in the streams as we drove by, though.

One concern, is that the DEP has been doing some dam repairs on a couple of these reservoirs (not sure or don't remember which), and they have been quite low recently because of that. When you look at the stream flow data, several of the outflow streams in the area of Croton Falls are way below normal at the moment, despite the rain last week, and some are above normal. When you input parameters for 30 day graphs, several of the streams have had abrupt drops last month, looking like the dam's gates were closed one day to reduce outflow. That makes me wonder if the DEP has slowed the outflow in some and increased it in others so they can refill the low reservoirs. 


Also nearby to the places you mentioned is the short but sweet Titicus outlet. I caught a couple of wee wild browns in there last week, just below the S pool. Water flow is good there now.

My advice would be for folks to check the flow graphs in the streams they want to visit before they drive the distance.

Oh bother. Homework. 

Regarding the rotator cuff, it's a shame that limits your fishing! Can you cast with the other arm?

I'll bet Vinny and I can suggest a good surgeon, if you need.

[VinnyH]

Side note: I can hardly pick my arm up half way but already I can cast sidearm. Physical therapy will get me back to 100% but that will take a couple of months.

I'll also be doing more dropshotting. There's always a way to fish. I was just reading about the "float & fly" technique, that shouldn't be too strenuous.

Best to All,
Vinny

[crappyice]

I must admitt that I was pretty excited (as a fishermen, not as a concerned neighbor to those who have been inconvenienced ) about seeing the woods bridge out when i was up in that area a few weekends back.  Unlike many initial concerns about my work ethic since I was asking for some fly activity posts,  i am thrilled that the amawalk will be relatively quiet since many anglers are opportunistic, and dare I say, lazy.  I was quite successful with some decent size browns towards the bird sanctuary end of the amawalk before the pollutant attack.  I'm hopeful it will return to that again. 
I look forward to checking out the other areas mentioned by ShorePatrol...I promise I won't tell my millions of friends in NYC.

[SteveD]

Thanks, Vinny, for moving all the stream topics into one place.

I am hoping we will get more stream and fly fishermen/women interested in sharing their experiences here.

I am going to the Croton Watershed Chapter of Trout Unlimited meeting tonight in Pleasantville, where I will ask what they think of contributing to this forum and what sort of info it might be useful to post in some pages on this site.

I was thinking it might be very nice to have a web page where all of the useful links to USGS flow data and regs could be put in one place, like some of the links I posted earlier in this thread about Amawalk, so that we could check quickly the important details and current water conditions about a stream before we go out to fish. Perhaps the TU folks can give us some guidance as to what info might be useful and where to find it. If so, I can work with Vinny to organize such a page for this site.

Steve

Addendum, 5/16/08 am: It turns out the CWCTU folks are planning the very thing, as they announced at the meeting plans for an expanded and updated version of their website  (http://crotonwatershedtu.org/) with detailed data and links about local streams. It seems they have been getting more and more activity on their site in recent months, so it makes sense to upgrade it to include this sort of information. I have offered to help them to organize and publish the new site, which they hope to get up and running by mid summer, so I shall keep this forum informed about it, as it occurs.

Hopefully, that might become the definitive site for finding timely answers to the sorts of questions posted in this thread, and to learn of things like the Wood St bridge being closed, or low or dirty water due to construction, or such.

[crappyice]

I fished the Amawalk today off Wodds Road.  Parked at the bird sanctuary and walked down to the bridge.  I met another angler before I entered the river.  He nailed a 20 incher down stream early in the morning. 

With that new found optimism, I headed upstream, hitting every pocket that held promise.  As a dry fly fisherman at heart and no sign of rising fish or bugs, I knew nymphing was the only way to go.  Oh bother! What I prefer in this situation is to use a dry fly as my strike indicator.  There is just something about watching a dry float as opposed to some synthetic material floating the stream that is so natural.  I tied on a stable dry (March Brown size 16) and dropped a flaskback prince nypmh about 16" below the dry.  In the second pool, I hooked my first 5" brown stockey.  I kept working myself upstream and eventually nailed two more 5-7" stockeys, all on the dropper prince nymph.  I eventually found a GREAT pool.  Second cast..BANG...6" stockey on the nymph.  A few casts later....SPLASH....12" Brown NAILED the dry!!!  This was my first trout on a dry all season.  I had two more dry fly strikes in the same pool without netting the fish, but my spirit has been renewed. 

I fished the remainder of the stream to the large damn and then  called it a day after picking up a geocache (A sport where you use a GPS to find hidden "treasures" placed by other geocacher...great outdoor fun for the whole family....www.geocaching.com for more info) in the bird sanctuary.   

I then left Amawalk and headed for Titcus.  I was not impressed.  The stream seemed murky and a bit unappealing.  Fished a few holes here and there but I just didn't feel it.

Headed for Croton train station.  After climbing down the hill, I realized that I was done.  Do you know that moment when you just feel DONE!  No water looked promising and I realized that it was time for a bit of family time.  Headed home...grabbed the kids...hit the blue gill lake in New Rochelle...grilled some BBQ chicken and ended a great Memorial Day Weekend...WAIT...there's still tomorrow!!!

[SteveD]

Sounds like a perfect day!

No bugs hatching on the river? I was on Croton Reservoir in the early AM, just a few miles downstream of Amawalk outlet, and there were all sorts of midges, mayflies and stoneflies all over the water, even an occasional fish jumping, although I suspect they were chasing minnows rather than rising to flies. Of course, the reservoir is likely much warmer than the outlet waters, so the hatch times would not be the same.

What a beautiful holiday weekend! I hope to get back out this afternoon after the kids do the parade thing. Perhaps I may try  Amawalk outlet rather than the lake.