How many here would support this?

[Montrose]

DEC not stocking trout until May 15th?

I was just reading a summary of the predation by common mergansers on yearling trout being greater than 50% between Arpil and June in our area. 

Here's some of the text:

Common Merganser Effects on Hatchery Reared Brown Trout Study Complete.
Joshua Stiller, graduate student at SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry, completed his Master?s thesis entitled ?Effects of Common Merganser on Hatchery-Reared Brown Trout and Spring Movements of Adult Males in Southeastern New York, USA.?

From this research study, Josh estimated that common mergansers consumed greater than 50% of released stocked yearling brown trout from early April through late June.

Results suggest that releasing yearling trout in mid-May may reduce potential seasonal consumption rates from greater than 50% to less than 15%. However, before any stocking changes occur, DEC must assess several factors, including: the acceptance of such changes by anglers, effects on wild and two-year-old hatchery-reared brown trout survival, and financial limitations of retaining hatchery reared trout until mid-May.

Was just curious how many would support that move if DEC decided to do it?

[Gordon]

If it improves the survival rate, why not?

[biggamee]

Sounds fantastic if more Browns will survive, the years to come fishing will improve by a nice %...

[lionpshark]

Only if it really works in the favor of the browns survival rates. I guess we will findout

[Montrose]

I was stunned when I looked at the percentages...I mean this is ONE predatory species and it's accounting for taking more than half of what is stocked.

The study doesn't account for the 4/1 bucket brigade, cormorants, mink, otter, osprey, gulls, etc.   Staggering to me.

So 6 weeks longer to stock and we could potentially see twice as many fish live.  DEC could actually raise less fish in the hatchery (to save money) and still increase the amount of fish in the waterways.

[biggamee]

I was stunned when I looked at the percentages...I mean this is ONE predatory species and it's accounting for taking more than half of what is stocked.

The study doesn't account for the 4/1 bucket brigade, cormorants, mink, otter, osprey, gulls, etc.   Staggering to me.

So 6 weeks longer to stock and we could potentially see twice as many fish live.  DEC could actually raise less fish in the hatchery (to save money) and still increase the amount of fish in the waterways.

And they would have enough forage to eat...isn't that the reason they were stocked to begin with? To eat sawbellies....It's a win win situation if the study fulfils itself

[KenH]

I'm very surprised that the common merganser engages in that much fish predation. I've always thought the cormorants and loons did more damage.
I'm also surprised almost to the point of being skeptical that setting back the stocking could result in that much of an improved stockie survival rate.
To be cynical, this isn't the result of a study by DEC biologists, it's a Graduate Student's thesis.
Still, I would certainly suport the DEC examining this and see if they reach similar conclusions. In which case it's probably worth a try.
The reservoirs aren't really a place where peope gather at opening day to catch stockies since most of them would be under the 12 inch minimum anyway. But it may have a bearing on the streams and outlets where opening day is usually a big deal and those anglers may have a different opinion.   

[Nick]

does this apply for the streams aswell, i think in streams if they stock it too early seen april the waters are way to high.

[Montrose]

I'm very surprised that the common merganser engages in that much fish predation. I've always thought the cormorants and loons did more damage.
I'm also surprised almost to the point of being skeptical that setting back the stocking could result in that much of an improved stockie survival rate.
To be cynical, this isn't the result of a study by DEC biologists, it's a Graduate Student's thesis.
Still, I would certainly suport the DEC examining this and see if they reach similar conclusions. In which case it's probably worth a try.
The reservoirs aren't really a place where peope gather at opening day to catch stockies since most of them would be under the 12 inch minimum anyway. But it may have a bearing on the streams and outlets where opening day is usually a big deal and those anglers may have a different opinion.

The clip I read said he was sponsored in part by DEC and other colaborators Ken.  He also tracked the mirgrations of Mergansers to the arctic.  That's why the theory is delaying the stocking would allow more to live.  The major migration would be past SE NY by then.  I agree with you in that I never counted the Mergansers as such major trout predators.  I also agree about the 4/1 anglers taking issue w/a later stocking on all the other streams, rivers, and ponds.

does this apply for the streams aswell, i think in streams if they stock it too early seen april the waters are way to high.

Nick, Yes, this would apply to the strams as well.  The study was for South Eastern NYS, so not just the reservoirs.  Most of the streams are stocked in mid to late March to have the fish in place for April 1.

[shawnhu]

I'd support it if it means more fish, at the same costs.  I'm a NYS lifetime fisherman, but my friend's aren't.  I'd hate to see this as another excuse to raise the license fees again.

[Pointer]

I never knew mergansers had such a negative impact on stocked trout. If delaying stocking really will result in more and larger fish it would certainly make sense. I would think it should be done as a trial program on select waters an if it worked by means all means go ahead with delayed stocking. I also think this would make more of a difference in waters where there was significant holdover as opposed to the more put an take type fisheries. I think if they continued to stock the put an take fisheries for 4/1 an delayed the stocking of waters with good holdover until 5/15 all the different groups of fisherman should be happy an it would have the most positive effect on the trout fishery as well. Just my thoughts on the subject.

Chris

[Brooklynite]

I had to look up what a Merganser looks like. I can't really recall seeing one...of course, I'm sure now I'll be seeing them everywhere...

With all the weird weather conditions blowing out the streams/rivers for the fly fisherman, I'd say waiting isn't a bad idea, but here's the kicker. It takes a few days, even as long as two weeks for a stockie to acclimate to river. If the unpredictable conditions repeat next year, it could result in higher water temps early on (warm May), posing a risk of reservoir run-off of warm water and making it harder for fish to acclimate...it might take them as late as early June making for the possibility of a fishkill...

I'm more for longer periods for the stockies to adjust. OR for a second mid-season stocking (as many other states do).

[bluefish]

In the late 1990s, I took a few charter trips in Lake Ontario.

A year or so later, the charter boat captain got into some trouble, regarding bird-fish predation.   He and his buddies saw how much bass the cormorants were consuming, and (allegedly, according to the NY Times article) decided to go to an island where the cormorants were nesting and kill a large number.    Not sure if this was true, or what ever happened to the case, but this guy was in deep trouble.     But I do remember....when fishing with the guy...how he was lamenting about the steady decline of  bass and the "shallow water" fish that were being devoured by larger and larger groups of cormorants.

I don't recall seeing many mergansers on the reservoirs, but those cormorants are eating machines. 

Anything the DEC thinks will increase survival rates......great.

[Trout Stalker]

I was fishing Gleneida in October and over 500 of those filthy looking birds landed on the lake. The feds will put you away for shooting them. They should look at thinning the flock for sure!! They are depleting the baitfish and fish fry and need to be thinned like everything else. mother nature does not take care of everything as efficiently as well managed human culling programs. History proves this for sure. Late stocking delays the innevitable. Stocking the streams late is not good for the state or local business.

[Montrose]

In the late 1990s, I took a few charter trips in Lake Ontario.

A year or so later, the charter boat captain got into some trouble, regarding bird-fish predation.   He and his buddies saw how much bass the cormorants were consuming, and (allegedly, according to the NY Times article) decided to go to an island where the cormorants were nesting and kill a large number.    Not sure if this was true, or what ever happened to the case, but this guy was in deep trouble.     But I do remember....when fishing with the guy...how he was lamenting about the steady decline of  bass and the "shallow water" fish that were being devoured by larger and larger groups of cormorants.

I don't recall seeing many mergansers on the reservoirs, but those cormorants are eating machines. 

Anything the DEC thinks will increase survival rates......great.

Bluefish, it is true.  They were nesting on Big and Little Galloo islands and bootheels and shotguns took care of a good number.  In some circles they were heralded as heroes.  So I hear anyway. 

The DEC does hazing now to keep the birds away there and on Oneida Lake.

You will see a lot more mergansers now that they are coming through on migration.  I saw some hooded mergansers this week, but have not seen a lot of the common types yet.  They flock in large rafts this time of year and are very common winter ducks where there is open water for them to feed.  Over here on the Hudson it's not common to see 50-100 at a time.  You will also see a lot of eagles where ever they are too since tyhey are divers and need to "run" to take off.  A lot easier for the baldies to hit than say puddle ducks like mallards.