Killing Bait

[kwagner0905]

Was out this weekend fishing with sawbellies and had many nice runs but didn't hook a single fish.
Using rod 1 Epixor baitfeeder and 1 rod with strike guard.  Using #2 Gama Octopus hooks.  I was patient and let the fish take line before setting.  Bait came up with slash marks. 

Am I doing something wrong or is it common certain times of year for fish to just attack the bait but not eat it?

[lionpshark]

Was out this weekend fishing with sawbellies and had many nice runs but didn't hook a single fish.
Using rod 1 Epixor baitfeeder and 1 rod with strike guard.  Using #2 Gama Octopus hooks.  I was patient and let the fish take line before setting.  Bait came up with slash marks. 

Am I doing something wrong or is it common certain times of year for fish to just attack the bait but not eat it?

This happens to all of us. What I would tell you to do is go out with two different but similar setups (hooks) and see which Hooks give you the best success rate.

[kwagner0905]

Agree with the different hook setup...was reading the thread on treble hooks.  Going to try that next time out.
Glad to hear that I am not the only one as misery loves company.

Let's hope that this nice November weather holds up!

[shawnhu]

Was the line still running when you tried to set the hook?  If it was, most likely the trout didn't swallow the bait yet, and you probably yanked it out of it's mouth.  Give it some more time, maybe increase the wait time by another 2-4 seconds.

Now if the line was limp after waiting, you may have waited too long or the trout was not interested in a meal, rather just a kill.  Try reducing the drag as much as possible, maybe even freespooling for a few seconds to see if the fish swallows.

[KenH]

Shawn is bang on. Many fish will grab a bait, run with it, stop and flip it
to swallow it. Then it will run or start moving again. This is why some old timers always preach setting the hook on the second run. I never set on the intitial run and will wait until it stops and eitherr runs/moves again.  It'd really a test of patience but almost all the fish are hooked in the stomach. Of course
this isn't good for C&R fishing but then I don't believe one should be doing that with live bait to start with. 
Also, there are indeed times that fish seem to grab a bait out of instinct rather than hunger and will run and drop. Personally I haven't found multiple or treble hooks to be a solution, but others may have different results. I often switch to artificials when that happens in the hopes that the tail treble will nail them on an instinct hit.


 

[shawnhu]

Ken,

If most fish are gut hooked with live bait, what type of line and how long of a leader would you use for fish like Trout?  Their teeth is rather sharp right?

[lionpshark]

I use Seagar Invisix 12lb 6 - 8 ft flouro carbon leader its a little expensive

[KenH]

Shawn, I use an 8lb copolymer or 12lb fluro leader of 3-4ft depending on which setup I'm using that day. I use to use nothing but 6lb Ande (tournament green) from about 1980 till 2004 when I realized two things; one was that I had lost quite a few pretty large fish over the years, mostly right at net. And
two, that technology had produced lines that were near invisible so that the
traditional "lighter is better" that I had adhered to for so long wasn't applicable any more. Yes trout have sharp teeth and I wouldn't ever lip one
4lbs and up unless I was really into bleeding, but they're not quite in the same league as Pike or Bluefish.
 

[Pointer]

I totally agree with Ken & Shawn regarding setting the hook. I also like Ken have found that switching to treble hooks doesn't seem to help although I have a buddy that fishes the Catskill reservoirs that swears by them. Personally I use a #4 Gamagatsu octopus hook as a general rule. If the bait is real large I will use #2's an if the bait is small I'll use #6's. As far as a leader I use about 4ft of 6lb Seaguar fluorocarbon leader material. I prefer the leader material from Seaguar over the Invisix because I believe it is stiffer although I have used the Invisix without any problems. I release all the fish I catch so if the fish isn't hooked in the lip I just cut the leader as short as I can. I try to never take the fish out of the water. I usually change the leader after catching a fish anyway so it dont bother me if I have to cut it. Most all the fishing books say the fish will survive if you cut the leader, I hope this is true. Ken do you think most fish survive if they aren't removed from the water an the leader is cut?

Chris

[KenH]

Chris,
I know that most written sources say that the fish will survive, or at least has a high probability of surviving if the leader is cut. Whether that's true, I don't know.  Clearly a hook remaining in the mouth/lips area will eventually come out, either rusting out, and/or the membrane of the mouth forming a hole around it. But I've removed hooks from trout inside their stomachs, not in the throat and I wonder what the effects are of having something like that embedded in the lining. Even if it it came loose I don't see how it could ever be expelled from the body without causing damage. The fish will certainly be healthy on release and survive in the short term but I don't know about the long term.
Ken

[kwagner0905]

Thanks guys for the tips. I guess trout fishing requires a bit more patience than those big ol' bass who just grab the bait and run.

I had the same questions on cutting the leader and releasing the fish.

Thanks again for the info.

One final question...is hooking in the mouth vs. in the back equally effective?  I prefer the mouth when water is rough as I think the bait gets dragged when in the back and not a natural look.

[Pointer]

Ken, thanks for your opinion. I see where your coming from regarding the long term damage to the fish having a hook in the lining of it's stomach. I really hope the majority of them survive as I would hate to be the cause of them dying. For now I guess I'll just be as gentle as I can with them an hope the majority survive. Have you tried circle hooks an if so did you have much luck with them? I have tried them for striper fishing before I didn't do well at all hooking fish with them.

Chris

[Pointer]

Kwagner, here are my thoughts on hooking the bait. When I'm on anchor I almost always hook the bait in the back. When I'm drifting or rowing I'll usually hook them through the mouth cause like you said it seems more natural for them to go through the water that way. I must say though there were days where it seemed to me that hooking them through the back while moving produced better than hooking them through the mouth. Maybe the unnatural action going through the water attracted the trout although I'm really not sure.

Chris

[lionpshark]

Kwagner, here are my thoughts on hooking the bait. When I'm on anchor I almost always hook the bait in the back. When I'm drifting or rowing I'll usually hook them through the mouth cause like you said it seems more natural for them to go through the water that way. I must say though there were days where it seemed to me that hooking them through the back while moving produced better than hooking them through the mouth. Maybe the unnatural action going through the water attracted the trout although I'm really not sure.

Chris

I have hooked the bait in the back while drifting or slightly trolling and I have had what I consider to be a great success rate on hits and hook sets. I think that when you get a hit while the hook is in the back you have a slightly better chance of getting the hook in because the hook is mid way in the bait. But if you hook your bait in the mouth and your bait gets hit from behind you have to wait until the target fish swallows the bait or at least until the head of your bait fish makes it completely into the target fishes mouth. I hope this makes sense to you. Because it makes sense in my head lololol

[Pointer]

Not sure if this is right or not but I believe the fish generally run with the bait an then stop an swallow it head first.

Chris