Brown Trout Stocking

[lionpshark]

Hey guys
in your opinion what do you think survived from the 7thousand plus brown trout that were stocked in Kensico ?

How do you think we can convince the DEC/ DEP / fisheries system to stock Browns after they are larger? At least 15 inches or so!
To have a better survival rate?

[johnjav]

probably less than 10% make it to adult size

[Montrose]

I think it'll be a tough sell Manny.  15" trout require twice the time in the hatchery to raise (read that as twoce the cost).

the issue with stocking 15" trout is they are keepr size when they get in the lake.  Our fellow fishermen will be the bigger problem than lakers at that point.

If you have ever seen or fished stocking areas and the ease with which the fish can be caught you get the point. 

Whether 6-9" or 15" when they go in, I think johnjav probably has the right percentage as to the survivors.

Maybe some staggered stocking through out the year would work better to ease the take of a mass stocking in the spring.

[KenH]

For many years most of us, including DEC Region 3, have considered the
large Lakers to be the cause of stocked Brown reduction. But with the numbers of larger Lakers in decline over the last few years combined with
the explosion in the resident Coromorant population, I seriously wonder if
those the birds are not the cause today. Years ago I watched coromorants swallow one stockie trout after another in a NJ pond. I also saw this at
New Rochelle Reservoir No.3.
 

[Montrose]

Ken, I've seen the same on WB rez where the cormorants have a breeding colony.  One stocky after another.

2 questions though since you know Kensico so well...

1. Does that DEP boat with the flares or fireworks or whatever chase off the cormorants, or is that strictly gull chasing?

2.  How large a laker do you think it takes to eat a stocked trout?  I know I have caught them on the 21-24 inch range so stuffed w/ alewives hat I was amazed they even took the bait I had out.  What about this size cass of fish predating the browns?  Think it plays a role?  (OK that was 3 for one lol)

[KenH]

1. Does that DEP boat with the flares or fireworks or whatever chase off the cormorants, or is that strictly gull chasing?

2.  How large a laker do you think it takes to eat a stocked trout?  I know I have caught them on the 21-24 inch range so stuffed w/ alewives hat I was amazed they even took the bait I had out.  What about this size cass of fish predating the browns?  Think it plays a role?  (OK that was 3 for one lol)

1. The DEP boat chases the gulls as well as resting coromorants off the off-limits buoy line on a daily basis, oftentimes usinng sound/flares. I run into cormorants all over Kensico, most of the time hunting eityher individually or
in small groups of 2-3. Once though on the west of the bridge I ran into a larghe group perhaps 10 or more birds hunting together. There appears to be a colony up by Area 1 and also on Rye Lake on the island on the south shore across from Dark Hollow. As far as I can tell no action is being taken against the coromorants excusively.

2. I personally have never found a trout in a Laker, just smelt, sawbellies, and once a half digested yellow perch. But the carnivorous character of Lakers is well known and old timers who have fished Kensico longer than I have have told me of finding both small Browns as well as small Lakers inside big Lakers.
I don't think it takes an enormous Laker to eat a 9 inch trout. If you scroll down this linked page there is a photo of an 18 lb Laker than had eaten an 18 inch Rainbow. The Lures beneath it are 12 inches long.
http://www.fishsniffer.com/wiza/050320lures.html
I think this suggests that it wouldn't take much more than a 7-8 lb Laker that was hungry enough to swallow a 9 inch stockie.

 
 

[Montrose]

Great read Ken.  Thanks for the feedback.  I agree that the lakers can eat prey fish roughly half their size, especially given the size and shape of the mouths they have compared to other trout.

[canoejon]

I thought they shot the flares to keep the geese away so they don't shit up the water.

[johnjav]

is that island in titicus still covered in those birds? I remember last year i must have seen 30 + chilling at that island.  Some of the best bass fishing is in that area. 

[lionpshark]

I think it'll be a tough sell Manny.  15" trout require twice the time in the hatchery to raise (read that as twoce the cost).

the issue with stocking 15" trout is they are keepr size when they get in the lake.  Our fellow fishermen will be the bigger problem than lakers at that point.

If you have ever seen or fished stocking areas and the ease with which the fish can be caught you get the point. 

Whether 6-9" or 15" when they go in, I think johnjav probably has the right percentage as to the survivors.

Maybe some staggered stocking through out the year would work better to ease the take of a mass stocking in the spring.

What if they change the Keeper size to a larger size / or just stock more fish there ?

[reservoirdog]

1. Does that DEP boat with the flares or fireworks or whatever chase off the cormorants, or is that strictly gull chasing?

2.  How large a laker do you think it takes to eat a stocked trout?  I know I have caught them on the 21-24 inch range so stuffed w/ alewives hat I was amazed they even took the bait I had out.  What about this size cass of fish predating the browns?  Think it plays a role?  (OK that was 3 for one lol)

1. The DEP boat chases the gulls as well as resting coromorants off the off-limits buoy line on a daily basis, oftentimes usinng sound/flares. I run into cormorants all over Kensico, most of the time hunting eityher individually or
in small groups of 2-3. Once though on the west of the bridge I ran into a larghe group perhaps 10 or more birds hunting together. There appears to be a colony up by Area 1 and also on Rye Lake on the island on the south shore across from Dark Hollow. As far as I can tell no action is being taken against the coromorants excusively.

2. I personally have never found a trout in a Laker, just smelt, sawbellies, and once a half digested yellow perch. But the carnivorous character of Lakers is well known and old timers who have fished Kensico longer than I have have told me of finding both small Browns as well as small Lakers inside big Lakers.
I don't think it takes an enormous Laker to eat a 9 inch trout. If you scroll down this linked page there is a photo of an 18 lb Laker than had eaten an 18 inch Rainbow. The Lures beneath it are 12 inches long.
http://www.fishsniffer.com/wiza/050320lures.html
I think this suggests that it wouldn't take much more than a 7-8 lb Laker that was hungry enough to swallow a 9 inch stockie.

Ken your point is well put. I believe the Laker is one of the dominant predators on Kensico. But with that said the Large mouth bass is the ultimate Brown Killer in kensico they dump all those trout that fall prey to the bass swallowing them whole. If you see those trophy bass guys fishing with those new rubber brown trout lures which I believe were 9 inches or better. A little stocky is easy pickins for a larger bass .

[lionpshark]

Ken your point is well put. I believe the Laker is one of the dominant predators on Kensico. But with that said the Large mouth bass is the ultimate Brown Killer in kensico they dump all those trout that fall prey to the bass swallowing them whole. If you see those trophy bass guys fishing with those new rubber brown trout lures which I believe were 9 inches or better. A little stocky is easy pickins for a larger bass .

" 2lb Trout lures " 

[lionpshark]

Does anyone know more solid info on the NYC Res system and there fisheries program. For example
Who chooses the amount of fish stocked?
Who chooses the species of fish stocked
Is there a voting system or do they just do what ever is convenient?
Do they go by Ryans test, Documentations, netting,
I guess what I want to know is who gives the final ok and why

[Tom]

Has anyone ever caught a laker using a 6" lure that imitates a brown trout? If lakers were feasting on stockie brown trout this would be the lure of choice.
 
Tom

[Biz-R-OWorld]

I have soft plastic rainbow trout lfish about 4-5". Was thinking of trying them for Browns on kensoc.